Okay, after much thought, I have decided to create this as a forum discussion. Recently, I have been receiving a number of different questions regarding the "adminability" of one of the administrators here, Kacj321. These have been mainly occurring via IRC, and I am posting this here to get this issue sorted out. And yes, unfortunately, currently, it is an issue. One or two members have already left because of it, and if it is not sorted soon, more may follow. Anyways, this thread is created to try and solve this. The two most common objections I have been hearing of late are in regards to lack of community awareness, and very poor spelling/grammar. (The first one is obviously much more serious). I am staying out of this discussion, however. Its a community consensus thing. Do you agree with these? Do you disagree? Do these even matter? Personally, I feel that they do, however, this is a question as to adminship as a whole. So the question is two-fold here: First of all - what do you, as an editor, feel that the Admins here should represent, and secondly, do you feel that Kacj represents this? (I name him to clear up this issue). If you feel he does not - what can he do to improve this? Please leave your thoughts on this issue below. (Note: As I said above: I am staying completely out of this discussion henceforth. This is a community decision. I am posting because a number of people have asked me to do so. My only request: please try and keep this positive and constructive). Timeoin•Say G'Day•View my work•Skyrim To-Do List 23:31, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

What I don't understand what members have left because of me? Also this is because I don't like IRC? Kacj321|Zomboid Wikia|Elder Scrolls Wikia 00:09, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

No, it is not about that. Also, the folks in question appear to be offline for the moment. They shall reply later today, most likely. (And, in answer to your question, Blaidd told me via PM that he left because of you. I do not know the reasons for that, only what he told me Timeoin•Say G'Day•View my work•Skyrim To-Do List 00:40, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

I have a problem. To start with, he lacks the maturity to deal with adminship correctly. I have logs of him being utterly immature on the IRC, and on the same point, lacking neutrality and a sense of seriousness in really quite important discussions.

Don't get me wrong, Kacj. I like you – I just don't think you're right for adminship. If you can prove that you're mature, have some sense of seriousness and neutrality, it's possible that I'll reconsider.

But... At the moment, I really can't deal with him and his noobish IRC lackeys. If his sysop powers are still instated in a week, I won't be here; That I can guarantee.

Thanks for taking the time. And Kacj, please don't take this the wrong way... I don't mind you, I mind you being an admin. Elchzard ^{(Talking is fun.)} 14:37, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure why this discussion has been put into place though. Admins are technically just part of the common rabble that have been trusted with a little extra power to weed out vandalism. Admins should be held accountable for their actions if such power is abused and that is that. Once you start giving into to the members(and anons) here who think that every Admin is out to get them, you've already lost because you've shown weakness in your own judgment. So my advice? If someone is giving legitimate concern for an Admins' actions, the leadership needs to personally look into it as unbiased as possible and come to a concensus on what course of action should be taken.

Reasons I've seen for why Kacj321 shouldn't be an Admin: Maturity - Unless he is personally insulting you or banning/reverting you because of conflicting interests, this is not a true problem and maybe you should all just grow a thicker hide and either deal with it or ignore him when these situations come up. Spelling - If he was made into an Admin specifically because of his edits, this is indeed a problem. It is not a problem however if he only focuses on vandalism/forums/templates. Neutrality - Admins are people, not robots. If an Admin doesn't agree with you, once again, get over it. Even the leadership here has their opinions which they are free to express since guess what? This is a community. Skål! ^(talk) 17:28, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Skal, also I'm never immature on the Wiki, I always help users when asked, when I see a troll I deal with it, I always try get help on the Wikia parts which are lessed worked on like Morrowind. I don't see the problem. Also the reason I've not been as active lately is because I've been swamped with tons of College work, which thankful I've done. And regrades with Spelling/Grammar I'm dyslexic I've always found that hard, but yet it don't stop me I still love helping this wiki. Kacj321|Zomboid Wikia|Elder Scrolls Wikia 17:35, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

I also feel as if I should add another opinion of mine. I'm shocked that another Admin would threaten to abandon his post and wiki just because he doesn't approve of another Admin. I'll let you in on a secret... a passive-aggresive attitute like that won't benefit anybody and I'd try to tone that down seeing as how you're part of the leadership here. Skål! ^(talk) 17:51, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

I believe user GarouxBloodline/Skål! has some good points here. First, I too am not pleased to see this issue on the main page with the tag "news". It does not seem very informative, and unless a detailed explanation is provided to Kacj321, on why his administrator rank is to be removed- this seems like an excellent way to put a fellow administrator in a bad light for the whole community and readers of the Elder Scrolls Wiki. This is an issue, which should have been discussed in "privacy" as it only concernes a handful of people such as User:'R BlaiddDdraig and User:Elchzard and ultimately User:Kacj321- to not turn in to what seems like a way of pestering. But in this case, more good than bad has come out of it, as users from different corners around the Wiki show their support to Kacj321 and his position as administrator. If we compare the contribution done by user Kacj321- with Elchzard or 'R BlaiddDdraig, one can see that Kacj321 has much more experience on this particular wiki, and has contributed a great deal by creating Quest pages, Character pages, various templates and made other commendable contributions. He has never vandalized on the wiki or banned a user bootlessly. He has also spent much more of his personal time on the Wiki, than the other two.

Kacj321 might have some minor grammar issues, but as it clearly states in the Policies and Guidelines under §2.3 "Language; Grammar, and other mistakes" (and even under the section "Don't be discouraged"), his mistakes can be edited and corrected. Also, as user GarouxBloodline states, in which I absolutely agree; "Admins are people, not robots."

I think User:Timeoin really must consider the consequences the Wiki will receive once, or if, User:Kacj321 loses his title as Administrator, as it would clearly show a weakness in judgement, and then also bring up the question "Why was Kacj321 granted administratorship in the first place, then?". It would also mean one minus administrator which I don't believe this wiki will be able to handle, especially now with the Wiki being more active than ever. Anyhow, the aftermath would probably be devastating for the Wiki if an administrator is removed.

With regards to the "lack of community awareness"- That is something Kacj321, as well as all the other administrators (including I) must get better at. But since that issue concerns the other administrators likewise, it is not something which should be brought up against Kacj321 as if it only concerned him. The other thing regarding Kacj312 acting "immature" at the IRC, is something I too believe has to stop, but unless it is causing some serious issues for the community, I don't see it as a big problem, and certainly not a problem enough to have his administrator rank stripped.

I am not currently taking any sides in this discussion, but I am asking Timeoin to think what consequences this will have for the Wiki, if an administrator during this time- is removed.

Zluhcs  talk page  my edits  Elder Scrolls Wiki-chat

Wow. In my opinion this should not be here. When there is discord in the ranks of the admins you should try to figure it out among yourselves, Trolls smell weaknes.
If an Admin is imature on IRC but reasonable on the pages then ask him to act more mature, because obviously he can, if he does not want think about relieving him.
If a admin threatens to leave if his will is not made fact, then he will do the same in other things too and is in my opinion questionable as a admin.
I hope i have not spoken too harshly, regards
--Loonix ^(talk) 18:57, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

To answer the question as to why this was here, Timeoin went to wikia staff and asked them what he should do about this, wikia staff told him to bring it to the community and let the community take it to a vote. It's the only reason it's even being discussed amongst people in the first place. Far as "why Kacj321 was given adminship in the first place" he gained it form when Oblivion Wiki and Skyrim wiki merged. Timeoin didn't grant it himself personally. Maturity? Kacj321 just doesn't have it. IRC behavior? Little immature but really, it's a chat, who isn't? Arguing about which chat to use? Pointless. 'crat said which type of chat he wanted to use, IRC or Wikia and he chose IRC. He doesn't need to bitch about it, but yet he does every other day of the week. Even after Timeoin told him "No, just stop" basically. Far as administration goes, Kacj should try to be as professional as possible in his edits. I know the RoS does say not to be discouraged and blah blah blah but he's a role model in a position of power and he needs to be professional about it. Kacj does help users on the wiki with their problems, and even on the IRC chat which is great, no real quarrels there. Although I do notice in terms of Kacj dealing with other administrators, Kacj is usually the protagonist and disagrees with a majority of everything until he finally gets tired of arguing and says forget it. He's usually the only one in disagreement. He's got his own opinions, and that's great. Props for that. -- Kaishiro ^Message 04:41, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

A person who abandons a wiki because one of the admins is a little immature is just downright stupid. I'm sorry to put it that way, but I'm not going to candy-coat something as rediculous as that. To get angry because an admin made a spelling error is an insult to your own intelligence; it's a wiki, fix it. Yes, being an admin is a big responsibility, and admins hold a lot of weight in their words, but even admins are human. They can get angry, be immature, and make mistakes. I, for one, didn't come here to critisize leadership. I came here because I love Skyrim and I want to help extend this vast collection of knowledge on the game. I can almost garuntee that the admins here are the same way. The fact that this discussion ever had to take place only shows that there are far too many people who need to learn to suck it up and use their brains. If you don't like the guy, don't associate with him. If he catches you vandalizing the wiki, own up to it and stop crying. Dragonpalm18 ^(talk) 05:37, December 4, 2011 (UTC)