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  • If Necromancers all united, they could conquer Skyrim, Tamriel, or even Nim.  The more who died, the more who joined their army.  So why do they live in caves, alone and isolated?

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    • I always assumed the Necromancers only wanted forbidden knowledge, by messing with Oblivion and with dead things.Eventually they got expelled from wherever they were for fear of magic the people seem to have.So they live in their places because they need somewhere where they can practice their stuff at peace.

      At peace until someone decides to enter the cave and commit genocide on them.(i'm talking to you, Dragonborn you maniac you)

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    • Argonian Zarrik
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    • Funny how the College of Winterhold is ok with Necromancy, yet theres not a single necromancer to be found in it (unless you count the Conjuration teacher, but he doesn't actually have any thralls). And I assume the necromancers are isolated cause magic in general is disliked in Skyrim, so I'm sure a town full of angry magic-hating nords would be thrilled to see a bunch of undead walking around. People BARELY tollerate the Dragonborn if you use necromancer spells just cause "That spell looks dangerous, keep your distance!"



      Also technically, the Necromancers DID try to unite in Skyrim...just look at the big group in Wolfskull Cave looking to bring back Potema. If that aint Necromancers uniting to form an army of undead...I don't know what is. Funny thing again, is how if they managed to bring her back, sure she'd be crazy and powermad, but she might be able to gather up an undead force able to drive the Thalmor out of Skyrim. Just sayin'.

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    • Necromancers are kind of sad if you think about it, hanging arround dead guys all day can't be good for your health

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    • Actually, my dear Altmer friend, it is amazing for your health! your mental health on the other hand...

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    • The fact that they're willing to violate such a strong social taboo indicates that most necromancers are prepared to go to any lengths in pursuit of their goals.  I would expect that any large assembly of necromancers would ultimately result in one necromancer with a lot of new thralls - particularly since thralls are still able to cast spells as they did in life, but can be controlled more easily and can never betray you.

      Practically speaking, the first necromancer to kill and enthrall one of his 'associates', becomes effectively twice as powerful as the survivors.  Since his thrall retains all its existing abilities, it can logically create its own thralls, who will obey the master necromancer by proxy.  You can see this in action if you give your thrall a Staff of Zombies, and plant another one on a corpse just as they begin to raise it.

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    • Yngvild near Dawnstar. Anybody check that place out? 

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    • It's like the whole 'For every citizen of Skyrim, there are two bandits.' thing.

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    • it sucks when necromancers gruop up cause whn one dies another raises him as a thrall and then the necromancer thrall starts to summon or raise mor crap

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    • they live in caves because of the fact that they will just say they are the strongest and kill eachother unless one knows something the others do not like mannimarco the god and mannimanrco the man and the power of revanent shade no one else knows it they follow so they can learn and rebel oh he is also the only one who knows the worm thrall spell

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    • That kinda happened to the wolf queen. In the end her necromancers and herself were seiged. Causing damage to the ressurector would stop the army. If you could ressurect somebody as a vampire, then that vampire could learn to raise another vampire and the necromancers would replenish. Maybe the necromancers are studying how to do that...

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    • They may be studying, but such freaks like Dovahkiin come along, kill them, annihilate their progress while potentially practicing those forbidden arts themselves, just because they need something to do and mass slaughter is the best way to get over with boredom ...

      So essentially if the Dragonborn wasn't "an end to all evil, to all Skyrim's foes" (except for himself if he becomes evil) they would propably get something done.

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    • Clearly, the dragonborn is OP

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    • Orc named sue wrote:
      Clearly, the dragonborn is OP  

      Just because you can demolish anything that blocks your path in the blink of an eye, it doesn't mean your OP. Now does it? 

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    • To anybody siding with Necromancers, they are hostile first.

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    • Always wished we could join the necromancers ._. it's no fun being a necromancer alone :3 really wished I could have skeletal thralls too... >.>

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    • Necromancers live in isolated caves and kill everyone they meet for the same reason witches do.  Ever since Oblivion, Bethesda's policy has been to make everything as universally accessible as possible, and that means idiot proofing.  Witch, and Necromancer are words generally accociated with evil, and someone might get confused if they weren't so they're evil now.

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    • If the necromancers could bring something back from the dead that could bring something back from the dead that could...

      That would work

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    • lu ah skaven tried that and look what happened to her...

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    • Sky Above,Voice Within wrote:
      I always assumed the Necromancers only wanted forbidden knowledge, by messing with Oblivion and with dead things.

      I'm more interested in what these forbidden knowledge are. I mean it has to be outside the realm of what we're able to do, unless there's mods specifically for necromancers and what not. 

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    • Mania the Knight of Order wrote:
      To anybody siding with Necromancers, they are hostile first.

      Well, in all fairness, they have a right to be. Since basically all of society is out to get them because of what they do, you think they're going to put out a welcome mat and throw a tea party for visitors? lolno. 

      And yeah, I think if Necromancers formed an alliance, like the group that was trying to resurrect Potema, they could probably conquer a nice bit of Tamriel, if not all of it. Hehe.

      Too bad I had to kill them... ;n; rather join them... 

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    • Oaeaieooai wrote:
      lu ah skaven tried that and look what happened to her...

      She was just trying to bring back her dead husband, no?

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    • well that is a bit understandable but i think we're also forgetting one person who was trying to do the same: Calixto Corrium in windhelm was trying to do the same thing with necromancy, trying to bring back his dead sister by taking particular healthy body parts off victims. 

      While the cause might be just executing that involves horrid practices which continues to make them look bad. It would be cool if you could join necromancers tho

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    • Coppermantis wrote:
      Oaeaieooai wrote:
      lu ah skaven tried that and look what happened to her...
      She was just trying to bring back her dead husband, no?

      no the body was burned by the imperials before they retrieved it for her, she was raising an army of undead to kill both imperials and stormcloaks in vengeance

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    • Oh right. 

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    • lol, I never met the girl

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    • She's in Ansilvund.

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    • If people have to raise the dead to win a battle I would say that means they doubt thier abilities and are weak. 

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    • I don't necessarily believe that is true, it's just using the powers they're most trained in and gives them quite the army or raise the people you killed to solidify the win. 

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    • Alduin1996 wrote:
      If people have to raise the dead to win a battle I would say that means they doubt thier abilities and are weak. 

      Well, that is their ability, and it's just a different style of magic.

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    • I just think they are using dead people to do their work for them. 

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    • Alduin1996 wrote:
      I just think they are using dead people to do their work for them. 

      That is still a pretty weak argument against the conjurers. That's like saying "Oh Illusionists are messing with people minds so they can have them kill each other without the caster doing any work, he must doubt his abilities" it's pretty ridiculous when it's there main ability they're most comfortable with. Most school of magick are weapons(even resoration to a point is too) and conjurers just has an ability to raise dead bodies to contribute onto the battle even after death. That doesn't mean they doubt their abilities because their abilities IS TO Conjure creatures or raise the dead. I think that would make them very positive and strong of an oponent. In fact I think conjurers is one of the most difficult type of mages to fight against other than destruction and Illusionists, just because they can have a endless supply army that will outlast any human on the field who isn't a OP warrior like the Hero/Dragonborn. 

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    • Everyone talking bout necromancy when I'm just sitting here with my Atronachs...

      I agree with Stealthblade98 on this one, the conjured entity is subordinate to the caster and therefore a non-exclusive being. It's fire power, it's strength, it's defences would not exist in Tamriel without your having summoned it, as such and it is an extension of your arms and armor. Stealhblade didn't take the analogy far enough in my opinion. A conjured entity if used correctly is in the same boat as your armor and your swords, and offensive/defensive extension of your ability to fight. The arguement of 'doubting your ability' would extend to anything that improves your survivability or offensive power in the field. Which is almost every non-miscellaneous item and spell in the game. I personally believe in staying on the moral side of skyrim and not getting down and dirty with daedra and the dead, atronachs are more than fine.

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    • Necromancy gives so much more of an upper hand in the fight that sword and shield, so long as there are dead bodies to raise. Necromancers have frost magic too, and their proficiency with this would be enough to kill many warriors. With these dead they can create more power for themselves. I don't think you understand, either. It's not a question of whether they are powerful, it's why they don't join together and conquer skyrim. I think they would make an excellent effort like the Wolf Queen did, but the provinces would find a way to stop them. Besides, evil would never be able to join forces very successfully because, well, they are evil, most likely including to each other.

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    • @A Wikia Contributor. Atronachs are a type of Daedra. Though I agree with your logic. I personally dislike Necromancers because I don't like the idea of my corpse being used as cannon fodder. However to each his own.

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    • 144.118.161.35 wrote:

      Stealhblade didn't take the analogy far enough in my opinion. 

      I probably didn't but then i wasn't aiming to take the analogies farther, but i appreciate you adding onto my point with more analogies. :)

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    • I have two master necromancer thralls who can summon frost antros a conjurer dark elf merc who summons flame atronachs Barbas the daedra dog esbern old man from main quests and shadowmere the horse I really don't have to fight at all lol

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    • 2.219.70.72 wrote: I have two master necromancer thralls who can summon frost antros a conjurer dark elf merc who summons flame atronachs Barbas the daedra dog esbern old man from main quests and shadowmere the horse I really don't have to fight at all lol

      I always consider how many followers I can have. If you get durhreneviir (not sure how thats spelled) from dawnguard, he helps and can summon 2 undead guys.

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    • 2.219.70.72 wrote:
      I have two master necromancer thralls who can summon frost antros a conjurer dark elf merc who summons flame atronachs Barbas the daedra dog esbern old man from main quests and shadowmere the horse I really don't have to fight at all lol

      Who needs OP armors when you can just sit back and let everything else do your dirty work? I hate getting my hands dirty, but that might be the High Elf in me talking. 

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    • Most Tamrelians don't like necromancers for the same reason they don't like cannibals; they look forward to their corpse rotting peacefully in the ground, not being involuntarily used as food or cannon fodder by some random jerk.

      Additionally, while some (or even most) cannibals and necromancers may strive to only take advantage of "naturally-occuring" bodies and body parts, inevitably the more aggressive and ambitious ones are going to make the creation of fresh corpses (either directly or indirectly) a priority, which results in a large number of people being murdered solely for the use of their corpses.

      All in all, not the kind of thing anybody anywhere is going to be happy with.

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    • unless they're bandits and they deserve this fate :3

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    • yea, or frostbite spiders and the like

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    • StealthBlade98 wrote:
      unless they're bandits and they deserve this fate :3

      That's what i was gonna say i only ressurect bandits and vampires and such,and sometimes white souls.

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    • Same here, though i was contemplating on ressurrecting that mage in meridia's tower or whatever it's called as a dead thrall

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    • Sky Above,Voice Within wrote:
      I always assumed the Necromancers only wanted forbidden knowledge, by messing with Oblivion and with dead things.Eventually they got expelled from wherever they were for fear of magic the people seem to have.So they live in their places because they need somewhere where they can practice their stuff at peace.

      At peace until someone decides to enter the cave and commit genocide on them.(i'm talking to you, Dragonborn you maniac you)

      Eh, they're instantly aggressive.  It was self defense

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    • i still think there should have been an option to join them as a faction.

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    • What's with all this hostility to the Dragonborn? He's just strolling through a forest when some guys in black cloaks try to kill him simply to see if they can revive him like they have a god complex.

      ~Your Pet Rock

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    • Dead thrall a the emperor after you kill him if this is possible (not that far into dark brotherhood quest line) then we shall see why necromancers are hated

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    • Having the emperor as a dead thrall would be soooooo convenient.

      Guard: "You´re not supposed to be in here."

      Me: "The emperor disagrees with you. Right Titus?"

      Titus Mede II: "Uuuuuh..."

      Me: "See?"

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    • HahnDragoner523 wrote:
      Having the emperor as a dead thrall would be soooooo convenient.

      Guard: "You´re not supposed to be in here."

      Me: "The emperor disagrees with you. Right Titus?"

      Titus Mede II: "Uuuuuh..."

      Me: "See?"

      Then one could, quite literally, get away with murder

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    • Necromancers aren't evil they could bring back talos to nirn and beat the thalmor

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    • Don't you need the actual body to bring back Talos and he's been gone for 3 eras or something 

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    • If they found a skull or something, I believe the soul could be summoned from it and its power and knowledge may be utilized. That's what they were trying to do with potema, right?

      Maybe you could find one of his hairs in the Old Hroldan...

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    • Ah right, Potema i forgot about that quest. They were definitely using her skull to bring her back. I wonder if Talos would even want to come back, after all he is a divine being now. 

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    • If Potema could be revived via skull, why can't they revive Talos if they find his skull? I'd like killing a god man, and my high elf my actually recieve some respect from the Nords.

      Or extreme hatred. Whatever.

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    • I was the Wikia Contributor who created this thread.  Nice to see people still discussing here!

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    • Not only Potema's cultist, they indeed tried united once in 3E, although it's done in Cyrodiil instead of Skyrim. Order of the Black Worm, led by Mannimarco is the prime example of what happened if a group of necromancers managed to unit themselves.

      (Whether Mannimarco died there is another question, what if he managed to found another Altmer served as a new body for his soul and reappear in 4E... oh wait, Ancano suddenly rose up from the Midden and calling himself Mannimarco WOULD actually be a good idea!)

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    • Necromancers don't doubt their abilities, it's just that not all necromancers like other necromancers

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    • Mhazard wrote:
      Not only Potema's cultist, they indeed tried united once in 3E, although it's done in Cyrodiil instead of Skyrim. Order of the Black Worm, led by Mannimarco is the prime example of what happened if a group of necromancers managed to unit themselves.

      (Whether Mannimarco died there is another question, what if he managed to found another Altmer served as a new body for his soul and reappear in 4E... oh wait, Ancano suddenly rose up from the Midden and calling himself Mannimarco WOULD actually be a good idea!)

      Mannimarco is main villian in elder scrolls online, you should read wiki about what happen to him.

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    • I don't think Talos could be revived the same way Potema was, remains or not. Talos is a Divine who has achieved CHIM, he's several orders of magnitude above someone like Potema.

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    • Talos has mantled Lorkhan, essentially taking his place, he is a god. So he can't be revived by a Necromancer. Also even if you could revive the remains of Tiber Septim/Hjalti Early-Beard that are in Sacre Tor it would not be the same as reviving Talos. Talos is an over-soul made up of three individuals, Hjalti/Wulfharth/Zurin.

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    • Exactly my thinking, but I thought I'd leave it up to the loremasters in case I was wrong.

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    • At any rate, I kinda wish that necromancy allowed you to have a small army of minions, but I can see why Bethesda didn't put that into the vanilla game.

      Which is where mods come in.

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    • Having a small army of minions with you would be a big problem for balancing. It is the same thing with having too many followers. It makes the game too easy.

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    • Try removing "ReanimateAshPile" script from "Reanimate Secondary Effect" Magic Effect, also, try modifying The Ritual Stone power into Mass Reanimation Ritual Spell, you'll now have your own undead army.

      Or, create "Conjure Necromancer" spell with Creation Kit and the above modification, conjured Necromancers can also reanimate corpses.

      (Necromancy Spells Overhaul)

      (Meet my Creation Kit archive)

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    • It'd be hard to raise a sufficiently-sized army of the dead without drawing attention from those who would seek to defy such a force. And despite the ability of necromancers to create more minions, they can't easily create more necromancers, so the death of a single individual would have a much larger effect on their forces than an ordinary soldier or such. Besides, as the necromancer Johannes Cabal describes, armies of the dead are difficult to maintain, you can't go two miles without somebody's arm or leg falling off.

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    • Interesting point, but who's Johannes Cabal?  I tried searching him but got nothing.  BTW I was the OP.

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    • It's a book series about a scientist who sells his soul to Satan to become a necromancer. But he's not trying to resurrect an army or anything, he wants to find a way to "cure" death. 

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    • Interesting.

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    • The OP: "..they could conquer Skyrim, Tamriel, or even Nirn"

      Necromancers are not that powerful, you know. The most they can do is temporarily raise corpses, mostly one at a time. They are not altogether skilled in Destruction, unless they are the Arch-Necromancer variants. There are enemies that are far more capable than ruling Nirn than Necromancers.

      The only Necromancer I know of that was a very real threat was Potema Septim, in the Fourth Era. Her return would have been a real concern for the safety of Solitude, and was already in the process of returning from the land of the dead.

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    • The whole quest to stop Potema's resurrection was what inspired me to create this discussion.  So she was even more of a threat than Mannimarco, or am I wrong?

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    • I think Potema and Mannimarco are both equally powerful necromancers. I'm sure there are more, but these are the two I can only remember at the moment.

      However, I doubt they could conquer all of tamriel. They can't go to war with the Aldmeri Dominion, the Imperial Legion, or even the Stormcloaks. The Akaviri? Potema and Mannimarco's influence doesn't go beyond that.

      Edit: There is also Malkoran, who managed to utilize the power of Meridia's temple to resurrect the souls of the fallen Stormcloak/Legionnaires. But he still does not have an army of trained and disciplined soldiers.

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    • As for Mannimarco, remember he once ascended into God of Worms? What if he can still manifest the world behind by being a presence without physical body, an embodiment of death?

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    • 98.155.173.218 wrote:
      Necromancers live in isolated caves and kill everyone they meet for the same reason witches do.  Ever since Oblivion, Bethesda's policy has been to make everything as universally accessible as possible, and that means idiot proofing.  Witch, and Necromancer are words generally accociated with evil, and someone might get confused if they weren't so they're evil now.

      I can say from experience that skyrim is not idiot proof

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    • As for Mannimarco going to war with the Aldmeri Dominion, Stormcloaks, and Imperial Legion, he did more in ESO. He went to war with all the races including the First Aldmeri Dominion.

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    • Restless Blade wrote:
      As for Mannimarco going to war with the Aldmeri Dominion, Stormcloaks, and Imperial Legion, he did more in ESO. He went to war with all the races including the First Aldmeri Dominion.

      That's the perfect example of the pinnacle of my theory.  Necromancers, if they use their gifts properly, can conquer empires.

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    • They already did, Mannimarco has ascended into God of Worms and became the embodiment of undeath, unkillable, unseen since. (None can tell if the so-called mortal incarnation in TES4 is real or fake, or merely one of his various incarnations while the actual one exist as a formless Eldritch Abomination.)

      Now, what if our Dragonborn was... the God of Worms?

      There's no other reasons why he can conquer Soul Cairn by becoming a lich, devouring Dragon Souls as if they're foods, mastering the art of Dead Thrall and Ritual Stone at ease, as if he's a natural born Necromancer (and don't forget, Hero of Kvatch / Sheogorath can barely use Staff of Worm temporarily, but both our Dragonborn and Mannimarco can create Thralls without any staff). And apparently the Dragonborn had no childhood and past and could not age.

      What if our Dragonborn was indeed... incarnation of Mannimarco himself?

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    • TheMindOfMadness wrote:

      Restless Blade wrote:
      As for Mannimarco going to war with the Aldmeri Dominion, Stormcloaks, and Imperial Legion, he did more in ESO. He went to war with all the races including the First Aldmeri Dominion.

      That's the perfect example of the pinnacle of my theory.  Necromancers, if they use their gifts properly, can conquer empires.

      Remember that Mannimarco was an extremely talented individual. Necromancy is indeed a powerful tool, but not all practitioners of Necromancy can wield the same level of skill that Mannimarco did. Very few in fact...

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    • Because they're shunned. Would you want someone messing about with your dead relatives, raising them into undead?

      The fact they're prepared to do this anyway indicates they're antisocial and probably have criminal intent. Hence they do it out of sight and mind of others. Just like any other stereotypical evil type villain plotting the takeover of Tamriel.

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    • The biggest reason I think is because most necromancers are indvidualists. They are ultimately out for themselves and would ultimately war amoungst themselves for power.

      There are execeptions, with groups of necromancers or rogue warlocks who are under the command of the most powerful in the group, but these people would be hunted down by the witch hunters for sure if they were to get too powerful.

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